Class 15


Nate (?): 

Symbiogenesis is a scientific process in which one new organism is formed from multiple other organisms and is seen as a important part of evolution. As discussed in “Darwinism not Neo-Darwinism” by Margulis and Sagan there are different types of symbiotic relationships.


–Is it the same as parasitism? 


Gio describes it differently: 

Vemom is a movie that describes symbiogenesis by using Eddie Brock and Venom as a way to show mutualism, they both benefit from this relationship. Symbiogenesis is described as two organisms working together and mutually benefitting from said relationship.

Gio goes on to eventually describe the alien symbiotes’ variability; they can be parasitical in circumstances such as _______ (this kind of thing should be specified; it would not be enough to say “certain circumstances” without specifying). 


Wayne suggests it is important to describe them as a new species when Venom and Brock are in symbiotic relationship:


 During the scene, merged product of Venom and Eddy are struggling to find and maintain a state of homeostasis where both organisms can survive together. This conflict is seen as the venom symbiote is influencing or manipulation Eddy’s body to find food in order to solve the dietary strains on the body to maintain the symbiote and host body. Symbiogenesis is shown within these views minutes and perfect align with margulis and Segan ‘s interpretation of the topic. 


Daisy probably does the best job of clearing this up for my thinking here: 


Before watching the movie I went back to check my living environment notes from back in freshman year because I was 100% sure that there was more than one type of symbiotic relationship, I was sure there are three and I was correct. There is Parasitism which was the one we all knew in which there is a parasite who is benefiting of the host and the host is being harmed. Then, we also have commensalism, in which two species become symbionts and one organism benefits and the other is unaffected. Lastly, we have a mutualism in which again two species become symbionts and both organisms benefit. As I watched “Venom” I was looking to see what they o symbiotic relationship there would be. In my opinion, I saw a bit of all three relationships at different points of the movie. For instance, the ending of the movie I can say that we can see there is an example of a mutualism symbiotic relationship as Eddie and Venom get on the same page and it seems as they are both benefiting from each other in the end.


Sarah suggests popular evolutionary language implies immorality:


His colleague, Dora Skirth, feared what he could be capable of and this vibe was expressed through the attitude and body language the characters had towards one another. Carlton’s ideas are an expression of how humans are bound to evolve over the course of time and it is in our planet’s fate to experience “Survival of the Fittest”, where the most powerful of humans will survive. He decided to take it upon himself to synthetically speed up the evolutionary process  by allowing an alien to feed off of a human host to create a superior being.


–This seems to point out that visions of the future posed by those who are wealthy, have some political power, etc., do not include everyone. So, how else it this depicted in the film?

–How does this “play” with the dual interpretation of words like “superior” and “fit” when we compare the scientific context of biology and the social context of socioeconomic status? Eddy is called a “loser,” so he is “unfit” socially, yet he is “fit” in his strength, or…? 

–What do Margulis and Sagan write about words like “fitness” and “superiority”? 

–Does this argument suggest that Drake is superior to others? 

–How does “survival of the fittest” fit with symbiosis?

— What is fitness, and how is it measured? 

–Could we call Drake’s ethics anti human or anti humane? 


Tiana observes:


Throughout the entirety of the Venom one cannot go through with certain actions. Venom can’t survive without a host which is Eddie and. When Eddie needs a form a defense it is best to use venom as that defense to make it out of the conflict alive.


Venom seems to mean two things in her statement. To “use” venom, the lowercase “v” indicates the idea of a chemical compound that disarms and potentially poisons an opponent. At the same time, the word “use” complicates things further  if we think of the character Venom, someone who is given a kind of personhood (although alien) in the movie. What does it mean to use someone? There are ethical implications, no? In the case of Eddy, to use Venom would be to use Venom’s body without respect to his personhood, motivations, wellbeing, or desires. How does that compare ethically with the actions of Drake? Where does it place humans and their projected others, the symbiotes, in the ethical spectrum of collective social values? 


Josh described the match between Venom and Eddy as an issue of “DNA trait,” but I don’t remember a scene in which the match is specifically attributed to DNA. He writes, “The movie clearly states that Eddie possess a certain DNA trait that not all humans have, allowing him to host Venom, showing Neodarwinist combining with symbiogenesis.”


In which scene is it established that the criterion for a “match” is a DNA trait? 


Akela has a different explanation for the match between Eddy and Venom:


Venom is symbiotic with an amorphous, liquid-like shape that generally persists by bonding with a worthy human host, but if the host and the alien symbiote working together to accomplish their individual goals, their chances of survival will increase dramatically. To be specific, both Venom and Eddy were able to connect because both considered losers in both worlds which made Eddy the perfect candidate of the human host.


Author: Alexis


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